Post to Wire: Recycled Players

Welcome to a new column on Making The Nut where Cliff Bingham, Nick Tedeschi and whoever else the team involves discusses a pertinent sporting issue of the day. Post to Wire. Beginning to end. You get all you need to know here.

Cliff Bingham
Alright then, I'll open up the discussion for our first Post to Wire.   

Matt Orford's third consecutive stinker on the weekend got me to thinking about the merits of 'recycled' players returning to the NRL from the English Super League – while there have been some success stories along the way, there have also been a number of flops. Let's go through club-by-club and sort the 'recycled' wheat from the chaff (note: to qualify for this list, players must have played in the NRL, gone overseas and subsequently returned).

Brisbane – Shane Tronc and Dane Carlaw.

Nick Tedeschi
Sting, I'll have to put my hand up on Matt Orford. I thought he was the signing that would push Canberra over the line from a team that may sneak into the eight into one that turned the Raiders into legitimate title contenders. I wasn't the only one either. The Raiders shortened from $23 into $15 in title betting in a number of days after the signing. He has just come back so slow though, in every facet. His pace, his decision making, his body movement…all so slow. I was never his biggest fan when he played here but he did win a Dally M and lead his team to a title only three years ago. The key different between the NRL and the Super League is the pace of the game and some players really seem to struggle to come back after a time away.

Onto Brisbane, I think Shane Tronc has come back just fine. He was only gone for half a season though and I think props, firstly, tend to get better with age and two, aren't that upset by the pace of the game.
 
Time will tell on Dane Carlaw. He has been gone a while but we haven't seen him in the top grade and we didn't expect to. He came in mainly as injury cover.

What about the Raiders Cliffo? Your thoughts on Matt Orford?

Cliff Bingham
You certainly weren't alone on the Orford front – I too was a passenger on that bandwagon. In retrospect the memory of Trent Barrett also seeming to have lost a yard or two of pace on his return to the NRL  should have been more pertinent, though this may have been masked by his playing with other slow-coaches in the 2010 Cronulla back line. Before the start of Saturday's game against the Raiders one of the other boys in Bay 70 asked me who would get the axe first – Orford or Matt Elliott. I made Elliott a 2.5 week favourite, but by the second half had wound that in to a take-your-pick affair. The clock is ticking loudly in the nation's capital.

Switching to Canterbury now – I think the only player in scope here is Greg Eastwood?
 

Nick Tedeschi
Eastwood should be fine. He is still young, didn't really want to go and showed a fair bit in the Four Nations at the end of last season. Injuries are his biggest worry, not rustiness.

What about the Sharkies? I can think of a few who should go over there…John Morris, cough, cough…but none who have returned from a stint in recent times outside of Tim Smith, who really was nothing more than a rubbish footballer before he left.

Cliff Bingham
Agree on Tim Smith – Cronulla (and Brisbane very briefly beforehand) didn't get much when he returned, but Parramatta didn't lose much when he left in the first place. It would be difficult to mount a case about his talents deteriorating in the interim. As noted above, Barrett had lost a little zip by the time he came back from England, albeit that in a difficult situation for the Sharks he probably scraped together a pass mark.
 

The Titans look to have been pretty hit and miss in such dealings, with Greg Bird and one of your personal favourites in Clinton Toopi finding a home in the Sunshine State.
 

Nick Tedeschi
I think the trip over impacts on backs more than forwards and that is certainly the case with Clinton Toopi. Once a dominant centre, I wouldn't pick him for the Orange CYMS reserve grade team. Sure, his skills have deteriorated but his time in England seems to have softened his desire and competitiveness. With Bird, he is probably about the same player though he was always going to come back and probably never let his training slip. Having said that, 2010 was far from his best season.
 

Don't forget Big Red, Brad Meyers, also spent some time with Bradford and has been solid since returning while Mat Rogers certainly made a contribution after a stint playing union.
 

What about Manly, Big Man?
 

Cliff Bingham
Manly can lay claim to one of the more famous cases in recent years with the acquisition of Jamie Lyon. Whilst his departure from Parramatta was n an unsavoury one, Lyon has certainly proven himself to be up to the demands of NRL football since his return and has been one of the key attacking weapons in a pretty successful (one premiership plus a grand final defeat) era for the Sea Eagles. He'd go close to being the most successful of the returning players.
 

I'm struggling to think a player on the Melbourne or Newcastle books who fits into this discussion – any thoughts?
 

Nick Tedeschi
There are a couple of interesting cases with Melbourne and Newcastle with Adam Woolnough returning after a year out of the game to travel while Chris Houston missed a season when facing drugs charges. We haven't seen much of Adam Woolnough yet but he is obviously not beating the door down in Melbourne with the likes of Troy Thompson and Jaiman Lowe getting selected ahead of him though. Chris Houston, however, has been in fine nick for the Knights and seems to be getting better each week. He is still a long way off the form that won him an 18th man spot for New South Wales but he is getting there.
 

Any at the Warriors or Cowboys you'd like to comment on? Shaun Berrigan is starting to contribute now at the Warriors, looking good out in the centres against Cronulla, while Dallas Johnson has not missed a beat for your beloved Cowboys, still tackling his heart out. Glenn Hall is also back in Australia, playing for the Cows.

Cliff Bingham
Yes there are a number of Melbourne and Newcastle cases where players have returned from retirement or club suspensions, but not from the English Super League itself (or other European codes so that we can count Mark Gasnier when it comes time to talk about St George-Illawarra).

Berrigan looked like a decent signing and now has the potential to become an excellent signing given the Warriors injury woes and his ability to play multiple positions – Chris Flannery circa 2006 would have been a hit with the 2011 Warriors. Glenn Hall has been doing a solid job thus far for the Cowboys, furthering your theory that it's easier for forwards to reacquaint themselves with the NRL than for backs. And DJ, bless him, may prove to be the best Cowboys signing since Johnathan Thurston was lured north at the end of 2004. 64 tackles against the Eels – I'll leave it at that.
 
Parramatta seem to have brought too many mediocre players back from England (Wentworthville are looking like the biggest winners thus far) whilst Penrith may not have brought back enough. Your thoughts on the Parra quartet and the Panthers' lack of action?

Nick Tedeschi
The less said about the Eels returning lot, the better. Chris Hicks looks like he would struggle to make the Wentworthville side and the same is true of Paul Whatuira. Chris Walker now has no pace to go with his lack of brains. Casey Maguire is at least putting in and is doing a decent job defensively though with the ball, I would say he isn't offering much.

Penrith have steered clear of overseas recruits this year. After being burned by Shane Elford, I would say that is wise.

How have you seen the Gaz's form since returning? He apparently had a dud ankle on his return. Sam Burgess has gone a treat at Souths but he is obviously different, being a talented Pom coming over with his best years still to come.
 

Cliff Bingham
Burgess, and Gareth Ellis for that matter, are different propositions because they have only switched competitions once, rather than heading into English semi-retirement only to return. It is the latter group (including Matt Orford) that I think can be risky propositions for NRL clubs to sign – the Parramatta quartet certainly highlights the potential pitfalls.

The difficulty I have in assessing Gasnier is establishing what a fair benchmark is. He has been well short of his vintage performances since returning to the NRL, but to some extent his advancing years provide the best explanation for this. It is unlikely that St George-Illawarra regret bringing him back into the fold, so I think the Gasnier signing could be considered a success for the Dragons.

Finally we come to the Chooks and Tigers, who have been very environmentally aware with their recycling – Ryles, Riddell, Jason Cayless, Fitzhenry and Fulton to name but five returns to the NRL in the past two seasons.

Nick Tedeschi
Yep, the Chooks and the Tigers have made a habit of recycling players in recent times.

My thoughts on Jason Ryles are well documented. He is one of the great dumb footballers of all time and his penchant for common sense has not improved with a trip to France.

Jason Cayless never really got a shot. Daniel Fitzhenry was always hopeless. And Mark Riddell seems to be heading down the same path.

Liam Fulton is interesting though. He went over for a year to help the Tigers with salary cap concerns and arguably came back a better player. He certainly has a bit more craft to his game these days.

So perhaps it is an age thing as much as anything. If you are young or a hard-headed forward, you can make it back. But if you are old or a back, the trip home seems far more unlikely to be successful. Would you agree with that Sting?

Cliff Bingham
Yeah I’d agree with that – NRL recruiters need to pick their battles wisely when looking at the English Super League talent pool. The early evidence suggests that the Raiders scouts did not choose wisely.
 

Nick Tedeschi
Well Cliffo, we better wrap this up otherwise we may outlive Matt Orford's first grade career. Until next week old son…